WPS Base metal qualification limit

A PQR was qualified as per ASME SEC IX with two process, GTAW and SMAW with weld metal deposit thickness (t) of 8 mm each in a 16mm base metal thickness (T) of plate. What will be the BASE METAL THICKNESS range T (not deposited weld metal thickness) if a WPS is prepared with only GTAW process supporting the above PQR?.
Here are few ranges;
1). Base metal thickness range 5 mm to 32 mm and deposited weld metal thickness upto 16mm
2). Base metal thickness range 5 mm to 16 mm with a max deposited weld metal thickness of 16 mm
3). Base metal thickness range 1.5 mm to 16 mm with a max deposited weld metal thickness of 16 mm

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In my opinion option 1 is correct .Granted max deposit thickness for the GTAW process is 16, but, base thickness is separate and distinct from deposit thickness. One might use such a WPS to make a repair to base metal or to weld a joint of dissimilar thickness.

I agreed with @Aravind_km

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Bien , today I see plenty of comments regarding the above question in LinkedIn.So what’s your opinion ? I searched almost an hour in ASME interpretations but I couldn’t found any useful one.

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@Aravind_km and @Ani, option 1 cover option 2.

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Additional question from Follower:

We have 2 PQRs for material P1 & Gr. 1, where PQR-1 with full GTAW in 8mm, other PQR-2 with full SMAW in 12 mm. Assume all variables are unchanged.

  • Question 1: Do we combine above PQRs in WPS for thickness from 5 mm to 40 mm?
  • Question 2: If CVN required, the range of qualification for above WPS? Please given min. & max. thickness qualification for each process?

@Aravind_km @Abdullah could you support to answer?

Hope this would help bien,
Standard Designation: BPV Section IX
Edition/Addenda: 2015
Para./Fig./Table No: QW-200.4, QW-200.2(f)
Subject Description: SC IX; QW-200.4, QW-200.2(f) - Combination WPS
Date Issued: 06/06/2017
Record Number: 16-3074
Interpretation Number : BPV IX-17-30
Question(s) and Reply(ies):
Question: May a combination of two PQRs each of different welding processes, support a WPS combining the two processes in a single joint with all the essential and supplementary essential variables unchanged?

Reply: Yes, provided the base metal and deposited weld metal thickness limits of QW-451 are satisfied for each process.
In the above example
PQR 1-GTAW- Qualifies for T= 1.5 mm to 16 mm (Without Impact)
T=8 mm to 16 mm with impact
PQR2-SMAW-Qualifies for T=5 mm to 24 mm (Without Impact test)
T=12 mm to 24 mm with impact test
In my opinion please have a look on the bottom line of the interpretation which are in bold letters .ie.,“the base metal and deposited weld metal thickness limits of QW-451 are satisfied for each process”
For PQR1-GTAW-1.5mm to 16 mm(Without impact)
PQR2-SMAW-5mmto 24 mm (Without impact)
If you want to satisfy QW451.1 for both the process then the combined WPS Base metal thickness T shall be in the range of 5 mm to 16mm (Without impact) & 12 mm to 16 mm with impact test.
Hope this would help .

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sorry typing take a lot of time :grinning:

Thanks @Aravind_km.

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Hii Aravind,
please see the below,

200.2 (f) Multiple WPSs With One PQR or Multiple PQRs With
OneWPS. Several WPSs may be prepared from the data on
a single PQR (e.g., a 1G plate PQR may support WPSs for
the F, V, H, and O positions on plate or pipe within all
other essential variables) . A single WPS may cover several
sets of essential variable ranges as long as a supporting
PQR exists for each essential and, when required, supplementary
essential variable [e.g., a single WPS may cover a
thickness range from 1/16 in. (1.5 mm) through 11/4 in.
(3 2 mm) if PQRs exist for both the 1/1 6 in. (1 .5 mm)
through 3/1 6 in. (5 mm) and 3/1 6 in. (5 mm) through
11/4 in. (32 mm) thickness ranges] .

Sorry,
What is your point? I am not getting

Sorry,
What is your point? I am not getting

For PQR1-GTAW-1.5mm to 16 mm(Without impact)
PQR2-SMAW-5mmto 24 mm (Without impact)

As per the clause, WPS will cover 1.5mm to 32mm???

(f) Multiple WPSs With One PQR or Multiple PQRs With

One WPS. Several WPSs may be prepared from the data on

a single PQR (e.g., a 1G plate PQR may support WPSs for

the F, V, H, and O positions on plate or pipe within all

other essential variables) . A single WPS may cover several

sets of essential variable ranges as long as a supporting

PQR exists for each essential and, when required, supplementary

essential variable [e.g., a single WPS may cover a

thickness range from 1/16 in. (1.5 mm) through 11/4 in.

(3 2 mm) if PQRs exist for both the 1/1 6 in. (1 .5 mm)

through 3/1 6 in. (5 mm) and 3/1 6 in. (5 mm) through

11/4 in. (32 mm) thickness ranges] .

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Please see the example mentioned …

Standard Designation: BPV Section IX
Edition/Addenda: 2015
Para./Fig./Table No: QW-200.4, QW-200.2(f)
Subject Description: SC IX; QW-200.4, QW-200.2(f) - Combination WPS
Date Issued: 06/06/2017
Record Number: 16-3074
Interpretation Number : BPV IX-17-30
Question(s) and Reply(ies):
Question: May a combination of two PQRs each of different welding processes, support a WPS combining the two processes in a single joint with all the essential and supplementary essential variables unchanged?

Reply: Yes, provided the base metal and deposited weld metal thickness limits of QW-451 are satisfied for each process.

You must meet the essential variables for both processes or in other words “Thickness must Overlap”

You can take the advantage of QW 200.f for the same process and with all the essential variables unchanged ie, If yo have a PQR Of SMAW that covers a thickness range of 1.5mm to 5mm and have an other PQR of SMAW that covers a thickness range of 5 to 32 and all the essential variables are unchanged then the combination is possible.

Hope this would help.

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What my understands and my answer is:

YES, you may combine the PQR1 with PQR in the WPS to qualify thickness from 1.5 to 40 mm = T1 +T2, limits material and processes in QW-200.4 (b).

  • Root and hot layer: GTAW: T1 = t1 = max. 16 mm.
  • Fill and cap layer: SMAW: T2 = t2 = max. 24 mm.
    So, T1+T2 = 40 mm.

@Aravind_km as quoted from interpretation BPV IX-17-30 and QW-200.4(a) that noted each process, there are not mentioned the same process.
So, QW-200.4 (a) and QW-451 shall take prevail

Quote ASME IX 2019 - QW-200.4(a) - second paragraph:
Where more than one WPS specifying different processes, filler metals, or other essential or supplementary essential variables is used in a joint, QW-451 shall be used to determine the range of base metal thickness and maximum weld metal thickness qualified for each process, filler metal, or set of variables, and those limits shall be observed.

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Correct Aravind…